We are forming a new team

We bring you the first part of the conversation in which Sergei Palkin spoke about the important qualities of a head coach, motivation, emotions, the Champions League and a lot more.

"Roberto is a strong motivator"

- Was 2021 an ambiguous year for the team?
- For us, I suppose, it was a difficult year. It’s a transitional year because we thought, even when Castro came, that we were forming a new team. But it turned out that we began to form it after the arrival of De Zerbi because many young footballers began to appear on the team, while Taison, Marlos and Dentinho left. In China, they say: “May you live in an age of change”. This is a challenging year. We must assume that we are starting to set up the team from scratch, so not everything worked out this year. But the main thing that we succeed is that we are going the right way. The development of any organization happens in cycles, so any club goes through the stage of team formation. The year 2021 was exactly the team shaping year, with a large number of young footballers joining us and the departure of our legends.
 
- De Zerbi took charge of the team this summer. What was your priority while selecting the head coach?
- When choosing any coach, we have our own criteria. The coach must be a motivator, he must be able to work with young footballers and, most importantly, he must practise attacking football. These are the three main factors that a coach must meet. De Zerbi fits all three categories. And he corresponds, in my opinion, to a very high standard.

- Did your expectations coincide with reality?
- Of course they did. If we look and analyze these three components, it’s difficult to imagine a better motivator than him, and everyone is talking and writing about this. From the point of view of attacking football: if you remember what kind of football Sassuolo played when he left, and the things he is trying to instil in our team also correspond to the stuff we are talking about. Moreover, he wants to play offensively against any opponents, regardless of their level. The fact that he works with young people also implies his strength, his understanding and ability to work with them, because our policy is aimed at involving the young guys all the time, and he does an excellent job in this regard.

- Roberto De Zerbi has already won the Super Cup. How important is this trophy, given that Shakhtar have not won the Super Cup since 2017?
- It’s always important to win a trophy that you haven’t held in your hands for a long while. This was a serious motivation for the team and the new coaching staff, especially when you play against the coaching staff master Lucescu whom everyone wants to beat, and against Dynamo. This strengthened the role of the trophy. The fact that we won with a fairly big score highlighted the excellent performance; I think it gave a rather serious impetus to the team and gave us confidence.

- The standoff between Lucescu and De Zerbi will last at least until the end of the season. Do these coaches have anything in common, and what is the main difference between them?
- Their work with youth can be mentioned as a similarity. In terms of football, both of them practise attacking football. In terms of motivation, both Lucescu and De Zerbi are very good motivators. And here’s what distinguishes them if we consider the last season: De Zerbi tries to play offensively against any opponent, that is, he wants to put his philosophy atop of it and practise it, while Lucescu has already adjusted to a specific opponent this year, depending on the latter’s strength, changing the approach to them. I think this is the main difference between them. These days, two alpha males have appeared in the football pride, but, as you understand, just one should remain there. I'm sure Roberto will stay.
 
- Also, both coaches are very emotional. Some fans even say that it’s worth coming to the stadium for the emotions expressed by the coaching staffs on the sidelines.
- I agree with you. To be honest, they even tell me that I started cheering for the team differently with the arrival of De Zerbi - they say I do it much more emotionally. He charges people with his drive, his passions, his motivation. As the president of the club said, many people will soon go to stadium to watch De Zerbi.
 
- Are such emotions more of a plus or excessive emotions can harm as well since De Zerbi has already been sent off because of that?
- That’s about football, passions and the show. It’s interesting that you attend a football match and do not know how it will end, including the final score and the reaction of our coaching staff. For example, I know all the backstage conversations before important games, but sometimes I also fear what will happen. Nevertheless, you still go with certain interest and the question: how will everything end today? Not only is there a match, but also a faceoff between the coaches. This is also a battle watched by the fans.

- Our coach's interviews are instantly taken for quotes. The phrase "we’ve got a heart and balls" will go down in history and memes for a long time.
- That’s all about the same thing. Roberto is a very emotional person and a pretty strong motivator. His every message after the game exists for something and for someone. At that moment it was necessary for him to say that very thing and he understood why he was saying it and whom he referred to. That’s also interesting. It’s clear that then there was a lot of talk then, some memes about that phrase, but that’s what football is all about, that’s how it wins and attracts fans to the stadium.
 
- Dnipro-1 are currently sitting in the third spot in the league, and next year Metalist and Kryvbas will return to the top flight. Can we hope for the league comeback and the return of spectators' interest in football?
- We have some progress in this direction. You rightly said that Metalist are about to be back again, Dnipro-1 are turning into a serious ‘combat unit’, and Kryvbas are returning. But all the same, we are still far from the level of the level of the 2012-13 league. There is still a long way to go, but most importantly, we are moving in the right direction. Little by little, every year, some improvements happen.

- What needs to be done to raise the interest of fans and bring the league back to the 2012 level?
- That’s a very complex and multifactor issue that depends on the economic and political state of the country, the amount of money in football, infrastructure, the work with fans of a particular club, the operation of the very association for development of football in the country. The answer should be multifactorial because there is minor progress in each of those areas these days. I want to repeat: we are moving in the right direction, but how quickly we do it is another thing.
 
"De Zerbi’s football should be practised until it gets automatic"

- Shakhtar have had their worst European season since 2011, without claiming a single win in European competitions for the first time in the history. What lessons can be learned from this?
- 2021 is a tough year. When we invited Roberto De Zerbi and his coaching staff, we understood that we would need to form a new team, while Roberto came with his own philosophy and vision of attacking football. He was faced with two issues: the first one is getting into the Champions League group stage, and in order to get there you need to outplay the clubs of a serious level, the second one is the Ukrainian Championship. He had no experience of playing on two fronts, and this also turned into a kind of challenge. On the other hand, he has not yet got the feel of the Ukrainian Championship because, as practice has shown, everyone parks two buses against us, and that’s what the game is about, but in the Champions League everything is absolutely different. The summer camp was aimed at making it to the Champions League group stage, with the league campaign happening at the same time. In the course of the season, Roberto tried to set up the strategy for playing in both tournaments, and this was a big challenge. Making it to the group stage and winning the Super Cup was a great achievement at that moment. When we got into the group, I was not sure that we would be able to achieve any serious results there - I knew that the team would be getting some practice with the new coach and the new philosophy. De Zerbi’s football should be practised until it gets automatic, and that takes more time. Unfortunately, we did not have that much time back then. There was a lot of criticism from the fans, but there’s no escaping it. We understood that we would face that kind of problem in the group.
 
- Please recall your emotions at the end of the second half of the match against Monaco in Kharkiv, when the team could have been knocked out of the tournament just a step away from the group stage?
- I would even go back to the first half, when we were 0-2 down. To be honest, it was hard to imagine then that everything would end just like that. At that moment, we realized that we had risked it all after making some serious acquisitions, spending a lot of money on the new players, inviting the new coaching staff. We needed the result no matter what. When we were losing 0-2 after the first half, I was the unhappiest person on earth, and it was clear from the play that it would be difficult for us to come from behind. And when we succeeded and equalised, we got all the luck we could. Then I said that it would be tough for us in the group and that we were unlikely to have such luck. And then, in the group stage, we just saw how the ball simply wouldn’t go towards the back of the net.
 
- So you were able to guess it?
- All the luck that we got from above was given precisely to get to the Champions League group stage. Then we were out of luck.

- At the group stage draw, the fans had a deja vu: once again, Inter and Real Madrid were our rivals. Who did you fear the most, did you count on any success again in the match against Madrid with the new coaching staff?
- Firstly, the draw was bad for us just because we got the same teams as last season. I knew that they would always compare one coach with another, one team with another, one kind of football with another, and this automatically meant some serious pressure on the team and the coaching staff of Roberto. If we take the last season, half of the team was unavailable due to the pandemic, young players appeared and produced no pressure. They received a ticket to ride, they played their football. This season the situation was completely different, the pressure was present and the comparison was also present. From game to game, there were many comments from fans, with everyone trying to compare one type of play with the other. For me, the draw was bad due to this factor. And if we talk about teams, at first I feared Inter the most because, on the one hand, we had some head-to-head record with them, but on the other hand, they are just a team waiting for you to make a mistake. And they might wait a long time, but if you make a mistake, they will score one for sure because the team includes some serious world-class players. They play like a spring, first contracting and then extending all of a sudden. They are not even Real Madrid, although we suffered a 0-5 defeat against them, also losing in the return leg, although Madrid allow us to play football, but that’s difficult to do against Inter. Real play themselves and allow others to play, while Inter have a completely different tactic, and you have to be very careful with them.

- So there was a reason behind your fear for Inter since Shakhtar have been unable to score against them in five games now. Are we missing a creative striker?
- If you look at the last two matches, you can see that lady luck turned away from us. There were a lot of cases, especially in the home game, when we played 0-0. We were obliged to win this match, but the ball just wouldn’t go in the goal. Although for me the encounter with Inter was the most interesting of all that we played in the Champions League group stage.

- If this match was the most interesting for you, which one, on the contrary, disappointed you?
- That’s the first leg against Sheriff. We arrived with a completely different mood and attitude, maybe it played a dirty trick on us, but no one expected us to play like that.

- Could you imagine that in the first leg we would lose to Sheriff who made their debut in the Champions League group stage?
- We came there thinking that we would win. We were sure about it and understood that we needed to win two meetings no matter what because it would get really tough then. The lost duel played its role later. After losing the first match, our Champions League campaign was over
 
- How important was it to win the second match against Sheriff that decided nothing? Many people were surprised by the starting lineup and the substitutions that De Zerbi made, especially the goalkeeper replacement in the dying minutes.
- Of course, we wanted to win. In this case we can talk about the prestige and the fact that one game could bring us three million euros in prize money. There are certain triggers that show whether we are on the right path or not, whether we have fulfilled our micro goal along our long journey or not. We played very well, but if we talk about substitutions, it shows how De Zerbi makes up the team. For example, Shevchenko was the only one who did not play in the UEFA Champions League group stage, and the coach wanted to give him a chance to play and be part of the team. It’s important for him that the whole team are looking in the same direction. If we analyse the game, the goal we conceded is not Shevchenko's fault. Had it been his fault, Shevchenko would’ve been under serious pressure, although he started nervously. But if we analyse the goal, it wasn’t his fault. The substitutions surprised many people, but I want to repeat that Roberto is setting up a new team. I have never seen the guys on the bench so happy during my 18 years at the club, and this is the main trigger for the fact that we have a single team. When the substitutes are happy about the result produced by the guys on the field, it means that De Zerbi has managed to motivate and unite the team.
 
- The European competitions are over, is the league gold your major objective now?
- Yes, for us this is the number one task. We need to win the league title, all forces will be allocated for that.

"Football of Marlon, Traore and Pedrinho corresponds to the amount we paid."
 
- According to the results of the first part of the league campaign, the team's top scorer is Tete after netting 10 goals. How would you rate this midfielder's play?
- If you look at the statistical figures, they are quite impressive, but I think that Tete has not yet showcased the kind of football he can play. At the same time, he has a strong profile, he has a mentally strong personality which was proved in the match against Dynamo Zagreb when he took a spot-kick and scored the crucial goal. Even our legends did not take that responsibility, while he went to the end. He has a strong character, I believe that in the future he will be a top player. He still has a long way to go, I hope that next year will be much better for him than the previous one. Our wingers must score many goals, the more they score, the more confident will be our league title win. The number of goals scored by numbers 7 and 11 is an important indicator. We must strive to ensure that both wings perform well.

- Are you satisfied with the summer transfers of Marlon, Traore and Pedrinho?
- I think those are three strong players. The kind of football that they have shown, show and will show, I believe, corresponds to the amount we paid. Talking about Traore, from the very beginning he scored in nearly every game, for this we invited him. Unfortunately, then he suffered an injury, but that's another thing. In case of Pedrinho, before the injury he also played good football, but now, it seems to me, he still needs time to return to the previous level. About Marlon I can say that it’s already difficult to imagine our team without him, he is a proponent of De Zerbi’s style in football. We took him specifically to fit Roberto's game, he understands it well and passed it onto the whole team.

- When Traore got injured, did you understand that the player would be out for a long time?
- When this happened, I was not even in the mood to watch the game. I immediately realized that this is a really serious injury, as it turned out later, he tore everything that could be torn. Had it been possible to lose that match but with Traore feeling fine, I would’ve definitely opted out for that. That’s a terrible injury, and I would like to wish Traore just the speedy recovery.
 
- How does Traore feel now? Do you already have any forecasts for his recovery?
- He underwent two operations, recovery is proceeding normally. In June or July, we expect him to return to the general group, we hope that it will happen, but if it happens earlier, it will be even better.

- At the beginning of the season, Shakhtar were left without Traore and Moraes, but then Fernando and Pedrinho began to have more match practice. How would you rate the team's attacking play?
- Fernando used his chance because he also started scoring goals in almost every match. It seems to me that Fernando's major issue is that he often gets injured, and this knocks him out for two or three weeks, and then he has to start blending in the action again which is difficult. If not for his injuries, I think he would have shown a completely different level of football. As the president said, he can be worth either 100 million or nothing. De Zerbi and I came to the conclusion that Fernando was moving faster towards the 100 million mark than to zero in his pre-injury period. Again, if injuries do not bother him, then I hope he will display good and effective football. From a technical point of view, he has everything for that.

"We all expect more from each of them."

- This season, Shakhtar have lost points in their games against Oleksandriia and Minaj. What did they lack to win those matches?
- In the case of Minaj, I think they lacked the will to win. Minaj probably wanted the result from the game more than we did. They underestimated Minaj, which led to that kind of outcome, and the opponents took advantage of the situation, otherwise there is no other explanation. We can say that it wasn’t our day, but this can be said about any game. Anything is possible in football!

- In one of your interviews you said that the worst match of the season was against Rukh. Why is that?
- It meant that the fans were not interested in it, because Rukh parked three buses in front of their goal and we played that kind of football for 90 minutes. If we want fans to go to stadiums, we must play football. Why should a fan lose half a day, go to the stadium, spend money to watch us stand in the penalty area for 90 minutes and try to score a goal. This is not football. Nobody will watch such football and nobody will go to the stadium for it. We must raise the football bar in the country and understand that we are playing for the fans, and not for the owners, presidents and CEOs. We’ve got to pay attention to the kind of football showcased by each team. Well, and in case of winning points at any cost we will have what we have. This season is the worst for Ukrainian clubs on the European stage.

- But it's not only Rukh who play that way against Shakhtar and Dynamo...
- You see, you can play defensively. But when you stay in your box for 90 minutes, that's anti-football.
 
- What was the most spectacular match in the first part of the league season?
- I liked two games. The first one is our 6-1 victory over Zorya, plus the Super Cup clash against Dynamo. These are the two games that I like. If you look at the style, attacking football from the first to the last minute, I liked the encounter with Zorya the most.
 
- From which of the players did you expect more on the football field?
- It's hard to answer.

- Who’s the first on your mind?
- We all expect more from each of them. I would not say that today everyone has given their best. It’s clear that there is still a lot of work to be done training wise, in terms of understanding the game. This is a team sport, it’s impossible to say that individually someone has fallen short or underperformed. If someone falls short, then the whole team fall short, and the result is built around that. There were many games, and we have to analyse each match in order to name a specific player. Of course, it is possible to analyse the play of each footballer and split their dedication into molecules while doing so.
 
"He really likes young Ukrainian guys"

- What do you think is the best goal in 2021? We are currently conducting a poll for the best goal according to the fans.
- I saw the available options - all the goals are interesting. The goals that lead to a serious result are important to me. I’ve got two favourites: Mudryk's goal against Monaco and Moraes's goal against Oleksandriia. The first goal brought us to the Champions League group stage, and a lot depended on that in the future, and I'm just glad for Moraes as there was a lot of talk about his return and the contract extension. I'm glad he managed to score one immediately upon returning to the field, and this goal is important because it allowed us to leave for the winter holidays in the top spot and two points clear.

- Those two goals are out of the race now.
- The fans voted more for the beauty, while I voted more for the meaning.

- This year we can highlight the progress of the Academy players: Sudakov, Bondarenko, Konoplia, Sikan. The coach often resorts to rotation, how would you rate the progress of these young footballers?
- Roberto delivers the results that we expected from him. We understood that he knew how to work with young guys. If you ask him about the top three players in two years, they will definitely be three Ukrainians. He really likes our young Ukrainian guys, he relies on them a lot and gives everyone the opportunity to prove themselves. It is clear that someone has fewer opportunities, while someone else has more, someone is better, and someone is worse, but the absolute fact is that they are all progressing.

- A year ago you spoke of Trubin and Korniienko as the discoveries of the year, but now they are the first team regulars. Especially Trubin who demonstrates the highest level of football.
- I believe that Trubin will grow into a top goalkeeper, and he will be worth a lot in the transfer market since he has every attribute to become a top player. We want this to happen as quickly as possible, although there is still a lot of work to do and the road is long. But if you look at his talent, he’s got everything.

- There are frequent rumours that some foreign clubs are interested in Trubin. Perhaps you already received some specific offers? If there are any, are you ready to let him go?
- We are ready to let anyone go, but the main thing is that the offer is good, very good. When we receive the one, of course, we will be ready to speak, but the time has not yet come.

- The pairing of centre-backs changed constantly during the season. Who do you consider the most reliable player in this role?
- I believe that the Matviienko-Marlon pairing is the strongest because they are more experienced, and their age is suitable for displaying some serious football. At this stage, this link is the strongest for me, but we must understand that we have the young guys Vitao and Bondar at the back. De Zerbi is constantly rotating this pairing, varying it and giving everyone an opportunity, thus raising the guys’ level.
 
"Mudryk can grow into a world star"

- Yevhen Konoplyanka's recovery process has been longer than expected, how do you see his prospects in the team? There are rumours that Shakhtar do not intend to renew the contract with the player.
- Yevhen is a serious professional. He works well in training and treats his work in line with high standards. Roberto expects much more from him than he can deliver today, unfortunately. There are some inconsistencies in this regard, so he gets little match time. His contract runs until the end of the season, but we will think in this transfer window what to do next.
 
- In the first part of the season, Mykhailo Mudryk enjoyed phenomenal success. Shakhtar fans recognized him as the Player of November and December, he also got a round of applause at the Santiago Bernabeu. Is this attention deserved?
- This is the case when you need really and really great patience. He covered a long way from changing five coaches to the applause at the Santiago Bernabeu. First, he moved from the Academy to Kryventsov’s reserve team, then he went on loan, then he played under Fonseca and was loaned out again, then Castro and another loan spell. Everyone tried to work with him, but no one succeeded, while Roberto proved to everyone that you need to have different approaches. On the very first day in Ukraine, Roberto expressed a desire to call Mudryk, that is, he called Mykhailo to talk to the latter.

- They didn't know each other yet?
- Yes, they didn’t. He asked me to call Mudryk, although I tried to stop him, well, Mykhailo might have lost his heart as well. This suggests that Roberto knew his potential and that in his head he had already modelled how Mudryk would be introduced into the lineup. Today everyone talks about Mudryk, for the last two months he has been Shakhtar's best player, a round of applause at the Santiago Bernabeu and the rest is De Zerbi's work with the young players. This is one of the triggers I talked about earlier and it shows that we are on the right track. Sometimes we sacrifice something, but we understand that we are going in the right direction.

- Will Mudryk be able to grow into a world-class player? How can he make sure that star fever goes past him?
- Basically speaking, he has everything for that. In terms of the profile of the player who can grow into a global star, he has every prerequisite. How he disposes of this depends just upon him. We provided everything for his development and did not stop there when he did not play under several coaches. We went further and believed in him and his talent, although we didn’t know if we would have De Zerbi in two years or not. Now he has a coach who can make a star out of him, the main thing is that he picks the right path now. Everything depends only on Mykhailo these days.
 
- Why did you decide to extend the contract with Junior Moraes? There was talk that the club was not going to renew the agreement with the footballer. 
- There was a question why we hadn’t renewed it earlier. We didn’t do it earlier because the doctors said that after that kind of injury it would be difficult for him to recover, and even if we signed him, he would not be able to stay up to the mark, he would have declines and a long recovery period. In this situation, the club took the risk and extended the contract with him. God grant that in this situation the doctors are wrong and Moraes succeeds, being able to return to the previous level. We wish that to him, and in the last game against Oleksandriia he showed and proved that he can do it. The league campaign is long-lasting, we still have many matches, I hope Moraes will succeed.

- Will the goal against Oleksandriia help him mentally?
- I'm sure of that.

- Alan Patrick and Maycon have had their contracts extended for another four years. What function do they perform in shaping team play?
- I have already said that these are key players for Roberto. Talking about Maycon, then he has a great vision of the pitch, and for Roberto he is very important in terms of building the play. If we talk about Alan Patrick, he is generally a ball virtuoso, there is even nothing to discuss and analyse. It is logical that we extended the contracts with both, because both of them have key positions in the structure of Roberto De Zerbi's game.
 
- Now I am going to hand you an envelope with the name of the Shakhtar Player of the Year 2021. Who do you think can be the one?
- I think that's Mudryk or Marlos.

- So Mudryk or Marlos?
- It's so hard for me to answer.

- You know it for sure?
- No, I do not know.

- Mudryk or Marlos?
- let me name Marlos.

- Please open the envelope.
- That’s Mudryk.

- Are you surprised?
- No, not at all.

- How fair is it because in the first half of the year no one spoke about Mykhailo yet? Only in the second part of the year did he become one of the best on the team, and in November and December he was recognized as the Player of the Month.
- I think the fans trusted him very much in advance. Now this advance must be justified and returned to them through his play and dedication. It remains for us to wish him every success, good luck and progress from year to year.

- What would you wish yourself in 2022?
- I’d wish us winning the Ukrainian league title, I want to win it more than ever. I want to wish myself this kind of gift this year. Of course, I want the team to display great football in the Champions League group stage next season.